April 19th, 2007
A good comment was left for me. While I generally blog about light, fluffy topics, occasionally I do stray into more serious matter. Vegetarianism is that kind of matter. Without further ado, the comment, and my response:
From Incognito, in reference to A Fish Is Not A Vegetable:
Pescetarianism would be the term for the fish and vegetable ideal. (Thank you!)
But are you also against animal testing? Giving some poor heartless baby a Baboon heart? Lab experiments on mice?
Do we have philosophical consistency in our moral stance on a steakless life?
Do I have philosophical consistency? The short answer is, of course not.
A brief preamble: in general, I choose not to eat meat for two reasons. The first is the deplorable, atrocious living conditions that meat animals suffer under. The second is the massive environmental damage that is a direct result of meat production, be it animal waste runoff or dragnet fishing. But when you get right down to it, vegetarianism is a philosophical farce. Every day I do things that impact the earth and the other creatures on it in terrible, negative ways. I drive my car. I take medications that have doubtless been tested on animals. I study in a field that makes regular use of rodents and primates for research. Even the vegetables I eat are grown on land that has been cleared of its indigenous life to make room for wheat, as well as sprayed with pesticides, and so on.
Even Jains can’t avoid harm.
That said, there are actual, measurable gains to be made as a vegetarian. In fact, a tiny amount of animal meat less is needed for the world now that I no longer buy it, and I imagine that somehow that must translate into less deaths. (Well, probably just more waste… but if you imagine the vegetarians as a block, then we have some progress.) The same can be said, by extension, for environmental damage that results from meat production. Less meat made means less damage done. These are worthy achievements.
But in fact I do think humans are more important than animals. I totally support medical testing on animals, though I believe it should be as ethical as possible (for example, you can easily look up research standards, and they require things like application of anesthetics, comfortable living conditions with access to other animals for socialization, and so on). Of course testing is cruel and awful, but I’m comfortable paying that price for the maintenance and advancement of medical science. If a baby needed a baboon heart (I don’t know anything about this, including whether it’s ever happened or is even possible), I say fuck the baboon. Lab experiments on mice? In general, I support ethical use of animals in scientific research. I personally wouldn’t want to do it, and I guess that tells you something – but I am untroubled by the use of mice or rats in labs. Yet I wouldn’t buy fur and I also don’t buy leather.
There is some kind of complicated math of relative value at play here and I am no philosopher, and don’t pretend it’s airtight or perfectly reasoned out. So bear with me.
It an inescapable reality that we live in a tightly interlocked ecosystem here on Earth. If we don’t change how we live, we’re going to find ourselves without a viable planet. I suppose a cynic could say I make my choices ultimately to serve the best interest of people, and to a degree that is true. But there is also an ethical component.
Someone said we should eat meat because we’re top of the food chain. I think that’s bogus. Given we’re top of the food chain, does that give us the right to eat meat? Here’s another question: because men are bigger and stronger than women, does that give them the right to rape? What’s the difference? There is none. In both cases we have one most powerful agent, one victim group, and one desire (we’ll leave aside the multiplicity of reasons for raping and meat eating and just lump them together under the heading of “things we want to do,” i.e. pleasures). In both cases the agent is able to enforce their will. But as a society we think one is fine and the other is punishable by jail time. I realize drawing analogies is fraught with danger but I hope you see that my point is this: just because we can eat meat isn’t a good enough reason to do so. We are a thinking animal, and there is some responsibility that comes along with that. Once you find out how most meat is produced, it becomes impossible to justify supporting that system. Once you learn about the social and mental lives of animals, it starts to feel bad to kill them. We love our pets to distraction; why can’t we see that a pig is just a pet we haven’t met yet?
Where is this going… certainly I am an imperfect creature who is obviously only partially committed to change and to my morals. But you have to start somewhere. Being imperfect is no reason to abandon the whole project entirely. It’s not like we can’t live harmlessly on Earth so we should just go and light all the oil wells in Iraq on fire, what the hell, the planet’s doomed anyway. I believe every bit counts. I’m doing some bits. They count.

You are facing a terrible ethical multilemma here. If only the only options available were Good or Evil it would be far easier to resolve.
I would choose Evil of course. I always do. Well, almost always…
Nod. Indeed!
Speaking of choosing evil…
http://thrillingwonder.blogspot.com/2007/04/cthulhu-live-and-prosper.html
Drawing the analogy between rape and meat eating isn’t all that accuarate, because women seem to be persons, which traditionally carries with it some rights not associated with animals. If you don’t have a problem with testing on animals to expedite medical research, I find it hard to stomach (pun intended) criticism of eating meat.
Certainly the meat industry causes some problems for the environment. Whether or not it is more or less damaging than cars we all drive, or plastics we all use, is an interesting question. Would you concede that meat eaters who drive low emission vehicles, or are conscientious recyclers can be as moral and noble as their vegetarian counterparts?
Kudos for your “doing something” it is admirable. Now get over to Africa and stop all the terrible genocide. The cows can wait.
Indeed, you prove my point that using analogies is good for making points but bad for proving them.
I consider the analogy accurate insofar as I described it in the entry, but it is not perfect. As you say, persons do have rights over and above those of animals.
And as for approving of research but not meat eating, well, call it a comfortable level of hypocrisy. To me, it seems that meat eating is purely for pleasure, and the involvement of excessive cruelty isn’t justifiable just for pleasure. Research has more worthy outcomes: the reduction or elimination of human suffering (which I place above animal suffering). The difference is between enhancing our pleasure and reducing our suffering; in general, I consider animal use to be tolerable for the latter but not the former. (And note I strongly believe in ethical use of animals in research.) It’s our old friend moral relativism – when is killing justified? The extreme views (never, always), and all of the intermediate ones (sometimes), are flawed. A philosopher would tear me apart.
I don’t consider vegetarians to be moral or noble simply because they’re vegetarians. What we eat is only one aspect of our moral makeup. Child molesters could be vegetarians, and I would consider them neither moral nor noble! I consider it a moral choice, and I believe vegetarianism can be a noble decision driven by a conviction to morals, but as you correctly point out, a vegetarian is just as capable of driving a Hummer and wasting nonbiodegradable plastics as anyone else. So, yes, if someone makes different sacrifices in the name of morals or nobility or ethics or the environment, certainly, we could say they’re equivalent. I personally don’t think there’s much value in this kind of comparison though. How do we decide the relative values? Is not eating meat equivalent to never driving, or is choosing paper bags over plastic at Safeway good enough? Who knows? It would depend on so many variables and of course on what your outcome measurement is that we could keep all the actuaries busy forever sorting it out. We’re left trying to make the best guess we can.
Which brings us back to me, and my free admission that my personal moral stance may not be correct, may not “do” anything, is not consistent, has flaws, etc. I leave Africa to people with more well developed convictions and stronger senses of obligation – clearly I’m not up to that task.