June 5th, 2009
I have been upsetting at least one person with what is considered my mocking treatment of the bible and thus feel compelled to say something about this.
Religion is a conversation stopper. As a culture we have agreed that people’s religious beliefs are so precious, and people’s reactions to challenge so powerful, that we cannot openly speak against them. This is a form of conversational censorship that does not deserve respect. I’m voicing my opinion in a public forum where everyone, even the faithful, is invited to respond in print. That’s called free speech and it’s part of democracy.
People identify strongly with their religions. This means that is is very difficult to discuss religion as an idea without people feeling personally attacked. But that is for the faithful to manage. Because in fact you are not your religion. You are not your Bible. You are just you! It is not correct to assume that because I challenge your religion I am therefore attacking or mocking you. Christians even have a phrase for this: Love the sinner, hate the sin.
When I discuss the Bible and its contents, I am actually using the Bible as my reference. If the conclusions I reach are upsetting, consider that the problem may lie in the source material.
Another strategy is to blame “thinking and reason”, because if you don’t think about it the Bible works just fine. Unfortunately, this is a very popular decision.
As for upsetting people, that’s the hallmark of a free society. Freedom doesn’t mean much if people are only free to do (and talk about) things that everyone is comfortable with.
Vex,
If I am the one person to whom you are referring, please be at ease, I am not “upset” by the mockery, or perceived mockery. I just am calling a spade a spade in my view. Now to be clear, out of all the times you touch on Christianity, your “sincere investigation” to “mockery” ratio is pretty good. You do however use mockery in regards to Christians from time to time.
When you spoke of vegetarianism, you didn’t want to say you “judged” meat eaters, but in the end, you kinda came around to it. I suspect this stems from the fact that you are a person who cares a great deal about others feelings, and doesn’t want to hurt anyone if you can at all avoid it.
Again, there are very few points you’d have to address to move yourself completely out of the “mockers” camp, “HZJD” being the most obvious.
~I.
I don’t know how to persuade you of my nonjudgmentalism. It seems I can say it and say it and it doesn’t sink in – somehow you think you know me better than I do, or that I’m misrepresenting myself on purpose to deceive you.
I have indeed mocked Christianity. You are right about this. The extra step that you take is to assume that I am therefore mocking the people who are believers, and that’s just not how it is. Really, I guess you’re just going to think what you think and I have to accept that there’s nothing I can do about that. It does upset me to think that I am considered a “Hitchensian” but short of ceasing to discuss this topic altogether there’s nothing more I can do about that.
I mock Christianity all the time. I try not to mock Christians directly, but sometimes it’s really, really difficult.
I also mock Blogo’s veganism, my own weight gain, and my dog’s whining.
Huh, I might actually be kind of a jerk…
Some of my very best friends are devout Christians (one even teaches at a Christian private school), and thankfully, they are not full of judgment about my lack of faith, but then again, I don’t also try to convince them they’re wrong and they don’t try and convince me, which is good. They accept me for who I am, quietly pray for me in times of crisis, and while I make jokes occasionally, I try my best to not tell them they’re “wrong”.
I’ve never liked anyone to tell me why I’m “wrong” in my belief system or lack thereof, because as has been said, its a very personal thing to most people, and it often is a source of strength in people’s lives. That doesn’t just apply to Christians, mind you. I deride any and all who feel the need to force their beliefs on me, and I’d happily mock atheists who are on their high horse as much as Christians. I’ve seen lots of posts and links on Facebook by some of the folks on here recently about Christianity, Atheism, and what’s right and wrong, and it walks that line between disagreement and the same zealousness they mock in the other side. Not to say that after the murder on the weekend and some of the reactions, some of its not warranted as the extremists speak up, but its not always an easy line to walk. Thankfully, after catching up on some posts on here, it seems to be tempered for the most part, but it can easily cross the line….
…especially when Joe says it.
Yes, if everyone could live and let live, and never try to put their beliefs on other people (especially via government, military manouvers, and education) we could all just let the matter drop. Unfortunately the positions are often mutually exclusive and it can’t work this way. (ie, what do you teach children in school about the history of the planet? Either the bible is right or the geologists are – the court cases in the US demonstrate this nicely. Live and let live isn’t possible when you disagree so fundamentally about these issues. Someone is wrong, we can’t both have our way in the school system.)